"Navigating Taobao in search of Chinese Watches"

Disclaimer:

Buyer beware--there are plenty of fakes and/or reproductions and/or redials and/or frankens out there, especially for highly sought after items like vintage black 581s or "Soviet/China friendship" watches. Remember: "buy the seller first"; then buy the watch!

And this next part is important: I am not recommending anything and I am not telling you what you should do. Your mileage may vary; I take no responsibility for the results you get. I am only telling you what I do, and that I think my results have been excellent so far.

Resources

Taobao

Alibaba-Taobao
Field Guide

INTRODUCTION

Taobao is very much like EBay but it is intended for use by people in and within mainland (PRC) China. Unlike EBay, however, the purchase prices are stated. It is an "items for sale" site, not an auction site.

I'm not going to do all the work for you since learning to explore the wilds of Taobao and establishing a relationship with sellers is half the fun and because collecting can be a competitive game. But, still--in the spirit of good sportsmanship--here's a few pointers to help you on your quest:

Taobao is Chinese...that means it's pretty much all in the Chinese language. Click here to see what Taobao looks like normally.

The English Alibaba-Taobao Field Guide will probably help you immensely. But keep in mind that the Guide is a guide, not gospel. For example, the Guide says regular English searches work 95% of the time...but that's not my experience.

I've found that, generally, you will have to search using Chinese characters to effectively find the items/brands you're looking for. That means a search for "Shanghai vintage watch" probably won't turn up anything...but a search for "上海手表" will. There's lots more to learn about navigating Taobao but--again--the Field Guide is invaluable.

Google Translate and the Bing Translator are your friends. Both will translate phrases and words reasonably well, and Google Translate will translate at least most if not all of most website pages.

TRANSLATING TAOBAO

Translating a Taobao page is easy. Simply copy the URL of the page you want translated into Google Translate, pick the to and from languages and...

Again: Click here to see what Taobao looks like normally. Now: Click here to see what Taobao looks like translated.

The very good news is that if you use Google Translate on a page, any hyperlinks you follow from that translated page will be translated to some degree also. The bad news is that you have to be careful: remember that "out of site/out of mind" can reasonably translate to "invisible idiot" so be clear, concise and stay away from idiomatic phrases unless you're very sure of what you're trying to say or look for.

There are watch forums and watch websites that contain the translations for at least some of what you'll be looking for. The translations are out there. Have fun with that part of the hunt. Hint: again, Google is your friend.

I've noticed that, many times, additional photos in the descriptions just won't show in the translated page. So, if you want to see more pictures of a particular item, it often works to look at the page in Chinese. To do that:

Take the URL in the address bar at the top of the translated page you're looking at--it'll be something like:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fitem.taobao.com%2Fauction%2Fitem_detail-db2-878147e7a72140c0ba0f68e6bdbc0cfa.htm&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&history_state0=

Just remove the bits in bold, so you get something like this:

http://item.taobao.com/auction/item_detail-0db2-878147e7a72140c0ba0f68e6bdbc0cfa.htm

...hit enter...and presto! More pictures...usually.

WRISTWATCHES ON TAOBAO

To get you started, here's an untranslated and undifferentiated link to wristwatches on Taobao. Not vintage wristwatches or just Chinese wristwatches (that'd be too easy) but just the wristwatches of all types that are listed under the Brand/Pop watches section (品牌手表/流行手表) of Taobao. You'll have to discover and use search terms to refine the search to particular brands, and learn to translate and navigate to get to the vintage watches...but it's a start ;-) ...and maybe a hint elsewhere on this page will get you closer...

CONTACTING SELLERS

Big important caveat: Taobao is like "the major North American online auction site" in that, naturally and understandably, Taobao also does not want their sellers to do deals outside of the confines of Taobao. Now, if and when Taobao does establish methods for direct buyer/seller trade and payment outside of China I promise I will always and only use those methods when dealing with Taobao sellers, but that is simply not an option right now and I still have deals I want to make.

So, in the meantime, here are the main methods I use for making arrangements:

I generally use Alibaba/Trade Manager to make arrangements. Alibaba/Trade Manager is kind of like an instant messenger program for folks who wish to do business with people in Asia (the good part: including most sellers on Taobao). Some Chinese sellers have decent English skills but I find it very much helps to have one or two online translator pages (like Bing and Google) at the ready for use when communicating. I find I do most of my communicating in Chinese, helped by the online translators. Cut and paste the seller's Taobao "nickname" into the Alibaba user search...

Rarely, but sometimes, I try to establish email contact by writing an email asking if the seller will deal outside of China. Between email addresses found on Taobao itself, or through Google searches for Taobao nicknames, that often works. I write my introductory email in both English and Chinese (using the online translators) and, if I get a friendly reply, and if and when a seller agrees to do a deal outside of Taobao, we then work out how to communicate which items I want, and how payment will be made.

TRANSLATING WHEN CONTACTING SELLERS

I've listed the two online translators I use the most--and I keep both windows open during chats. Here's my method for translating during chats/conversations with sellers (and I do something very similar for emails):

I take the English phrase (what I want to say) and put it into one of the translators--then I take the Chinese result and use the other translator to check to see if the meaning is the same/identical in both directions, so: English to Chinese in one translator, then Chinese back to English in the other translator. Then I adjust until the meaning is the same (or close enough) in English and Chinese and in both translators. Then I send it ;-)

As for what the seller says: I put it into both just to ensure I'm understanding correctly.

ETIQUETTE

Please keep in mind that your contact may well be the first ever contact a particular seller has had with a potential buyer from outside China, so how you approach the seller and make arrangements may well have an impact on how that seller will view future transactions with foreign customers, so: please think ambassador as well as customer :-).

It won't hurt to read a few short articles on cross-cultural business etiquette (here, here, here).

Having said that, don't worry or be too cautious--in all my dealings with Chinese sellers I have been treated with good humour, excellent friendliness and much patience. Perhaps these Alibaba/Trade Manager icons will put things in perspective:


Excellent	Be Helpful	Confused	Sorry	Shock	Victory
优秀	很有帮助	混淆不清	很抱歉	休克	胜利

MAKING PAYMENT ARRANGEMENTS

Since Taobao pricing is in RMB, you'll need to convert prices to your currency to figure out how much to send. You can use XE.Com to get current rates. (Note: I always send slightly more than the arranged amount just to account for any possible currency fluctuations between sending and arrival...but that's just me and I don't think it's expected.)

Here are the methods I use to arrange payments. Again, I don't recommend these methods--they're just what I do. Also, someone has to show trust first and--since I want the watches--in my case, that's always been me. I send the money, then they send the watches. I haven't been burned...yet. In fact, I've always been treated very, very well.

I have simply mailed cash. That worked well, but expressing cash is expensive. Express takes about 4-5 days to get to most cities in China from Canada.

I have used Western Union. There are lots of Western Union agents in China. Generally, you will have to explain how it works to your seller and arrange with your seller which agent location to use. Do not use what is called "fixed rate" transfers to China--"fixed rate" transfers complicate things greatly. Choose the NO FIXED RATE option and BE VERY SURE to EXPLICITLY make that VERY clear to your Western Union agent when arranging the transfer. (I was once told that "no fixed rate" could not be done--I had to insist and have the agent check further before proceeding). With this method, the money can be available to your seller within a day. Cost of transfer--about $10.

I have used an International Bank-to-Bank Transfer from my bank account directly to the receiver's account. With my bank, I can do this online. This method works very well but follow all instructions carefully. It usually takes about 5-7 days for the money to transfer from your account to the receiver's account. Cost of transfer--about $12.

I use Xoom. Xoom allows you to transfer money to either the receiver's bank account, or to any China Post office in the receiver's city. Benefit: you can use your credit card or PayPal to place the money. Generally, you will have to explain how it works to your seller. Although it can take a few days for the money to arrive in your receiver's bank account, it can be available for pickup at a post office within a day or two. Cost of transfer--about $7.

There is a fifth method (I'm sure preferred by Taobao, but I haven't done this) for making purchases on Taobao and that's to use a "buying agent". Here's a link to one (again: not a recommendation). Here's more info on buying agents from the Taobao Field Guide.

SHIPPING

Most of the time, the Chinese sellers I have used have sent the parcels by China Post Express (EMS) or by TNT, although some use regular China Post International.

Regular China Post International is generally quite quick (say 2-4 weeks not including customs delays) and here's the rates in RMB (under a kilo China to USA is about $15 USD).

China Post Express or TNT are more expensive but courier-type quicker--the price for these services is about 150 RMB or about $22 USD (usually 2 weeks max).

Note that it doesn't the cost the seller any more to send 6 watches than it does to send one, so you can cut down shipping per watch by simply ordering a few from the same seller at the same time :-)

There ya go. Good hunting!!

"Navigating Taobao in search of Chinese Watches"

Disclaimer:

Buyer beware--there are plenty of fakes and/or reproductions and/or redials and/or frankens out there, especially for highly sought after items like vintage black 581s or "Soviet/China friendship" watches. Remember: "buy the seller first"; then buy the watch!

And this next part is important: I am not recommending anything and I am not telling you what you should do. Your mileage may vary; I take no responsibility for the results you get. I am only telling you what I do, and that I think my results have been excellent so far.

INTRODUCTION

I'm not going to do all the work for you since learning to explore the wilds of Taobao and establishing a relationship with sellers is half the fun and because collecting can be a competitive game. But, still--in the spirit of good sportsmanship--here's a few pointers to help you on your quest:

Taobao is Chinese...that means it's pretty much all in the Chinese language. Click here to see what Taobao looks like normally.

The English Alibaba-Taobao Field Guide will probably help you immensely. But keep in mind that the Guide is a guide, not gospel. For example, the Guide says regular English searches work 95% of the time...but that's not my experience.

Google Translate and the Bing Translator are your friends. Both will translate phrases and words reasonably well, and Google Translate will translate at least most if not all of most website pages.

TRANSLATING TAOBAO

There are watch forums and watch websites that contain the translations for at least some of what you'll be looking for. The translations are out there. Have fun with that part of the hunt. Hint: again, Google is your friend.

I've noticed that, many times, additional photos in the descriptions just won't show in the translated page. So, if you want to see more pictures of a particular item, it often works to look at the page in Chinese. To do that:

WRISTWATCHES ON TAOBAO

CONTACTING SELLERS

MAKING PAYMENT ARRANGEMENTS

I have simply mailed cash. That worked well, but expressing cash is expensive. Express takes about 4-5 days to get to most cities in China from Canada.

There is a fifth method (I'm sure preferred by Taobao, but I haven't done this) for making purchases on Taobao and that's to use a "buying agent". Here's a link to one (again: not a recommendation). Here's more info on buying agents from the Taobao Field Guide.

There ya go. Good hunting!!